Anti Lillak is a Tartu, Estonia based musician, archeologist, historian, and God of stage aggression. He is a vocalist and guitarist who plays in the bands Langenu, Ulguränd, Swarn, and a long slew of acoustic and folk acts. He is an OG member of the inner circle of the Tartu-based collective of bands, musicians, and artists known as "Pergerus" and is a key figure in the Tartu metal scene.
Vödkamizer: You have a long history of education and work in archaeology and history, currently working as a museum educator in Tartu's "Eesti Rahva Muuseum" (Estonian National Museum). What kind of impact has this had on your approach to songwriting in your bands and your roles in the Tartu metal scene? How has your education affected your view on the evolution of the local (Estonia in general) metal scene?
Anti: One thing that my studies in archaeology and history have helped to clarify to myself is a critical viewpoint on the past. Every time period, no matter how glorious it may look in retrospect, has had its nasty aspects that people tend to forget. Let’s take the Viking Age as an example. Although we know the courageous deeds of the heroes from the sagas and poems, these were also times of regular famines and plagues that ravished the people – including the much adored warriors and their families. In addition, we probably would be shocked by their attitudes on hygiene, justice etc. etc. We live in a very different world nowadays.
This is reflected on my lyrical themes too, especially in Ulguränd – although a Viking metal band, we sing not so much about victorious battles or drinking mead. It has been done countless times before anyway. We do focus on historical or mythological events (especially very kick ass ones) but mostly from the perspective of ordinary people made of flesh and blood, hopes and feelings.
Another important thing that history has taught me is that in order to be remembered, someone needs to write things down. There will be time when we all have left the stage for good and what kind of legacy have we left behind by then, depends merely on ourselves. Drowning in nostalgia for the things that once were is sweet but pretty fruitless. Better let’s make present as foken awesome as Earthly possible. So I have done a few things to record our part of the history of the Estonian metal – namely published two volumes of an underground magazine, TAUD (’Plague’), which contain interviews with the local bands and yearly chronicles. Maybe one day when the galaxies are right, I will start compiling a wider picture about the Tartu metal scene or the Estonian black metal scene in general but so far they’re just vague ideas. We’ll see what the time brings.
Vödkamizer: What are some particularly influential parts of Estonian history that you personally find have had the biggest influence on your own music and others in the Estonian metal scene?
Anti: If we look back to the different time periods of history then there’s one that has inspired the Estonian metal bands more than anything else – the Viking Age and the Final Iron Age, including the events of the German-Danish Crusade in the early 13th century. Almost all our pagan metal movement draws inspiration predominantly from this epoch. The roots of the phenomenon lie in our national romantic history writing of the late 19th and most of the 20th century which praised the independence of our distant ancestors, compared to the subordination to the German nobility and Christian church in the medieval times. Not only historians but also artists, writers, composers and other intellectuals glorified these times in their works. In this way, main Estonian pagan metal bands (both present and past) – Tharaphita, Bestia, Assamalla etc. – continue the tradition that was started by the first Estonian intellectuals in the 19th century. And I understand the charm of the past – I was fascinated with the Viking Age during my studies at the Tartu University, too. That’s why Ulguränd can also be included in this list of bands. But as hinted before, I am in a constant search for a fresh and personal approach to these topics.
Another time period which has also poured inspiration into metal is the restless first half of the 20th century. Especially Loits, who began with classical pagan metal themes like several other bands at the time, soon turned their head to the World War II and later to the Estonian War of Independence. At the same time, these topics have not become as common among other metal bands as the old prehistoric stuff, although the 20th century military history in general is very popular among the Estonians.
Vödkamizer: Tartu has experienced "droughts" over the years in terms of concerts, with either a lack of variety in venues, bands, audience, organizers/promoters, or all in various combinations over the years. What are your views on the current trajectory of the Tartu scene, the Estonian scene over all, and how do they compare to years gone by?
Anti: „Droughts“ are something essential for the small scenes. Since many activities rely on just a few persons, the overall music scene suffers a setback if they can’t carry on anymore for whatever the reason. The situation is very similar to fragile ecological systems where every species has a special place in a whole and its disappearance may change the entire system in a big way. Luckily, I think Tartu has a critical mass needed to maintain its metal scene in one way or another, even if bands, venues and organizers come and go. The position of a university town helps a lot – every autumn many young people from near and far invade Tartu in the name of higher education, thus helping to fill the ranks of the metal legions among other scenes.
These days the Tartu metal community is quite healthy, maybe even healthier than ever before (although I know little about the life in the 90s). We have regular shows (even in the year infamous for the lockdowns), the number of bands is growing and the releases keep popping out one by one. Fresh blood was much needed, it increased the number of activities and gave new energy to older metalheads as well. Of course, it has been achieved by conscious work to strengthen the position of extreme metal in Tartu and elsewhere. And this work will be continued.
I think that the existence of numerous bands in Estonia is the proof for the rather strong positions in Estonia in general, even though 2020 was a very difficult year for the concert organizers (with some venues being closed in the last couple of years – so the virus is not the only one to be blamed).
Vödkamizer: The newest band you sing in is the crusty death metal band "Swarn" who has released a demo, three singles, an EP and an album since 2017 in contrast to your older bands, Langenu and Ulguränd, which together have released so far only a demo, an EP, and an album, Langenu forming with its current name in 2004 and Ulguränd in 2011. Could you elaborate on the pacing of your older two bands in comparison with Swarn and the plans you have for future releases?
Anti: Langenu has released a EP „Silmitu ilmutis“ (2009) and a full-length „Need, kes näevad imesid“ (2016), Ulguränd has a self-titled EP out (2019). So yes, if taken into account the life spans of Langenu and Ulguränd then we have been very slow paced. There are several reasons behind this, including line-up changes and the fact that these bands mostly write songs as teams where every member has a chance to throw something interesting in. The writing and recording process of Swarn is very different – all the instrumental parts are written, recorded/programmed and mixed/mastered by Fen (Tiit) alone and my duties mostly focus on writing/recording the lyrics. This is the secret of the Swarn’s fast pace.
All my bands are in the recording process right now. Langenu will have an EP out hopefully not in a distant future (be ready for musical surprises…). Swarn has already recorded most of its second full-length album, it will probably be out in spring. Ulguränd has started recording demo versions of the songs for the debut album and we will head to studio maybe in summer or so.
Vödkamizer: Swarn's lyrics are primarily in English if not entirely, to my knowledge, whereas Langenu's and Ulguränd's lyrics are in your native language of Estonian. How has it been to sing in English for you in contrast to your mother tongue?
Anti: Writing lyrics in English definitely sets some language borders for me. Estonian enables me to be more playful and creative. At the same time Swarn’s music is very straightforward and rough, so the lyrics must follow the course and reflect the overall aura given by the instruments. It wouldn’t be appropriate to mate complicated Shakespeare era poetry about cosmic horrors (which is the prominent theme in Swarn’s songs) with aggressive crust death madness anyway. Of course, I try to set the general idea first, to get the right feeling for the words, even if they are not in my native language.
In Langenu some lyrics are even in Seto, a South-East Estonian local language spoken by about 10 000 people. It’s the language of my ancestors, although I myself have learned most of it in my later life. No one has attempted to write black metal lyrics in Seto before, which makes it especially fascinating. It’s like exploring the corners of the world for the very first time – you really don’t have a clue about the things that wait you in the shadows. And you don’t know where you would end up with it. So the process is as exciting as the result.
Vödkamizer: Many of Estonia's older successful metal bands choose to sing in their native tongue primarily if not exclusively and even choose names from their language, some even using archaic words. Many of these bands also seem to only care to play in local gigs and festivals. Do you feel this is a major factor in Estonia's metal scene remaining largely ignored by the international scene?
Anti: I don’t think the choice of language can be the ultimate factor for recognition. Metsatöll is a good example of a band singing only in Estonian and being our most well-known band internationally. We can see a similar situation elsewhere whether it is a trollish-sounding Swedish of Finntroll or a harsh German of Rammstein. Sigur Rós doesn’t even have to use a real language to be really popular. Nowadays it’s easy to get at least general overview about the meaning of lyrics with a help of translation apps.
The other thing that you brought up – playing only at home – has more important impact on the popularity. If a band wants to become more well-known outside of the state borders, it’s crucial to give concerts outside. For me personally this is the best way to get contacts with the foreign local scenes. And it really pays off emotionally because the metal people are very nice pretty much everywhere…The other option for the band is to have a really good virtual distributional and promotional network. In this case the record labels can be very useful, as the example of Swarn shows – we have performed only once (in Tartu) but our labels Redefining Darkness and Raw Skull Recordz have done a wonderful job in spreading the message of our music. They have done their work for years and have developed an enormous and faithful network of metal fans and organizers.
Of course, we must keep in mind that some bands actually don’t really wish to move further from the local reputation – and it’s totally OK.
Vödkamizer: You are quite active in general in expanding the Tartu metal scene's presence inside and outside of Estonia and have had a hand in organizing gigs with Estonian bands traveling to Baltic neighbors Latvia, Lithuania, and Russia and helping bands from the former countries as well as Finland and perhaps others I am unaware of. Has this effort been fruitful and rewarding for you and the local scene in your eyes and do you have any plans for this in the future when the Covid-19 restrictions relax or end?
Anti: I would definitely like to continue organizing gigs in Tartu and elsewhere and invite foreign bands to play here. I am not very active in this field and do maybe only one or two concerts with foreign acts per year. This way I can focus on providing good conditions for the bands (even if it means financial expenses) without exhausting myself too much. This kind of work helps to create contacts among like-minded people here, there and everywhere. In the long run it will be beneficial for everyone. And I sincerely hope that the bands who have played here in Tartu have fond memories of the place and its crazy metalheads.
Right now I wait until the virus world tour shows signs of end and then decide what to do next. The bands and audience are hungry for gigs, so there will be many concerts in the near future, I assure.
Vödkamizer: Tartu's metal scene has a very incestuous relationship with itself in a way, with the Pergerus bands often sharing overlapping members or borrowing musicians as stand-ins for gigs and recording sessions. What are your opinions on this situation and do you have any ideas for solutions to this lack of musicians?
Anti: One of the initial ideas of the Pergerus circle was to tighten the connections between the like-minded musicians, so if needed, a replacement for a project or a gig could be easily obtained. In that sense Pergerus has paid off – many exciting ventures have been done thanks to the crazy circus of these black metallers.
In a long perspective, however, getting new people to the ranks is crucial because otherwise the scene may simply drain nonexistent over time. Old blood starts to rot sooner or later. As mentioned, the times are quite good right now. Several young fanatics have joined the scene and shown that they hold true to metal music and its values.
Vödkamizer: Do you have any advice or words of encouragement to younger musicians in the scene for learning their instruments, forming a band/joining a band, etc.?
Anti: One of the key-words is persistence. Young bands may gain initial success very quickly but sooner or later face setbacks (line-up changes, creative differences and so on). In this phase many bands don’t find inner strength or motivation to face the difficulties – mostly because they are still very new – and as a result, perish. My advice is that when such situation occurs, take your time and let the emotions cool down a bit. After that it’s easier to look on the situation and decide, what should be done next. It has helped me several times to continue with my long lasting bands even after the times of demotivation.
Vödkamizer: We are coming to the end of our interview. Do you have any shout outs, acknowledgements, or parting words for us?
Anti: Metal has become a subculture with some very distinguished traits but still allows to discover new areas. While the big acts exist to the rules of common show business, the underground sphere of metal is really adventurous and that’s precisely why I adore it. You can always do things new way. Invent new formats for your creations, play gigs in surprising locations and so on. I would compare making a metal band with hiking. If your main aim is to get rich and famous then it’s better to use the methods that many have used before – record regularly, play in certain places (festivals, TV etc.), give interviews to the most prominent media channels... And you should always measure your current position from the standpoint of success. But the whole thing is like driving on a highway – it is really exciting if you are totally satisfied by the scenery provided by the speedometer of your car.
Underground metal is the opposite. You are free to go off-road, get beaten by mud, rain and indifferent nature – and at the same time be amazed by totally unexpected sights or hidden corners of the world. While many would choose the highway, these small roads and tracks in the forest would lead you to the unknown. What can be more charming than that?
Thank you for the cool questions, Vödkamizer!
Vödkamizer:
Huge thanks to Anti Lillak for taking the time to his insights and wisdom with the Drain of Thoughts!
Be sure to check out his bands!
Langenu:
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Langenu/
Music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44xj5T7WtTc&ab_channel=Langenu
Ulguränd:
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Ulgurand
Music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eumu4Spq8S4&ab_channel=Ulgur%C3%A4nd
Swarn:
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Swarncrust
Music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk827q3FDic&ab_channel=AtmosphericBlackMetalAlbums
